Driscoll & The Wink Club

Back in September, Mark Driscoll, Pastor of Mars Hill Church, shared a message at the Convergent Conference at the Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary.

In it, he targeted the views of Brian McLaren, Doug Pagitt and Rob Bell. While I have very little respect for McLaren and Pagitt, Rob Bell I don’t know too much of and haven’t made up my mind on yet.

But what bugs me most about this Emergent crowd is the constant need to question everything. For example, Rob Bell, in his book “Velvet Elvis: Repainting The Christian Faith,” he writes:

“What if tomorrow someone digs up definitive proof that Jesus had a real, earthly, biological father named Larry, and archaeologists find Larry’s tomb and do DNA samples and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the virgin birth was really just a bit of mythologizing the Gospel writers threw in to appeal to the followers of the Mithra and Dionysian religious cults that were hugely popular at the time of Jesus, whose gods had virgin births? But what if as you study the origin of the word virgin, you discover that the word virgin in the gospel of Matthew actually comes from the book of Isaiah, and then you find out that in the Hebrew language at that time, the word virgin could mean several things. And what if you discover that in the first century being “born of a virgin” also referred to a child whose mother became pregnant the first time she had intercourse?”

This is a disturbing view in my mind and totally contradicts scripture as early as Genesis 3 where God talks about the “seed of the woman” - way before any Mithra’s or Dionysian cults ever existed. Any serious Bible student would know that God is alluding to a mysterious event here as genealogies in Scripture are usually discussed along male lines and not female.

Furthermore, Bell seems to belittle the Isaiah 7 passage regarding the virgin birth in his attempt to address this issue and ultimately pokes a finger in the face of the Gospel account. To me, the pursuit to reach the unchurched is not worth it is you trash scripture. After all, even God exalts His Word - even more then His Name.

But out of the three Driscoll targets, Bell is the least of my concerns. It’s McLaren and Pagitt who concern me in their views and activism within Christianity today. Form your own opinion of what Driscoll says. Here is the iTunes podcast link for the conference and have a listen to what Driscoll has to say.

2 Well it seems as if the Emergent movement has had it’s feathers ruffled as a result of this and a series of bloggers have formed a “wink club.” Fuelled by people like Adam Walker from pomomusings.com, this group of bloggers are posting a series of “wink” posts at Driscoll to show their dissatisfaction at Driscoll for what he shared at the above mentioned conference.

OK, now here’s my rant. This wink club - take it’s collective ability and impact and it doesn’t register a blimp on the radar of influence or impact in changing lives. This group of “bloggers” are emergent friendly and tend to pledge their allegiance to McLaren et al and their rebellious questioning of everything done in the name of Christianity.

Sure, there are heaps of stupid things done in the name of Christianity and the modern church needs to change in order to address this. But to question scripture and to modernise it in a way to embrace all kinds of whacked out ideas makes this group akin to the mindset of the people from the ‘Jesus Seminar” where the Gospel is assessed according to modern ideas as to what Jesus actually said and done based on a humanistic and carnal attitude.

The net effect of this this movement is to assess the life of Christ and to categorise the probability of the events actually happening to red, pink, grey or black “beads” of probability of these events actually happening.

The result of this is that the vast majority of the life and teachings of Christ are ultimately questioned instead of believed. Bell’s quote above is an example of the same attitude within the emergent movement.

Driscoll on the other hand has distanced himself from this movement. Initially a part of the movement, he tore away from it alarmed at where this group was heading. He now pastors a 6000 plus church and is among the fastest growing and most influential churches in the USA.

Among the reasons for this is that Driscoll holds Scripture in high regard. He often gets slammed for his stance of “God says it, we need to obey.” Apparently, those in the emergent movement forget the words uttered by Paul:

“We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,” 2 Cor 10:5

So to the winkers I say;

I know much of what WE as the church represent is questionable to an unbelieving world and I know that we have been a bad example.

But in our attempt to converse with them, we need not attack those who hold on to scripture in high regard for even our God places His Word higher then even His Name.

For example, Adam at pomomusings lists a bunch of “ridiculous” snippets from Driscoll’s message and one of them is:

“If Rabbis don’t love Jesus, they have a bad hermeneutic.”

Well Adam, you are a student of scripture and you should take note of the following passage where Jesus says:

“You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.” John 5:39-40

So if a Rabbi does not love Jesus, he indeed does have a bad hermeneutic. You bring that up with Jesus if you have a problem with that - not Driscoll.

You winkers amount to pretty much nothing in the grand scheme of things and have very little impact on spreading the Gospel. Driscoll does. So get over it.

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8 Responses to “Driscoll & The Wink Club”


  1. 1 Stuart

    Simon,

    That’s too funny. Someone emailed me the podcast last week. I’ll give it a listen and tell you what I think.

    About Bell, I think you’re taking his quote out of context - and many have. The chapter that the quote is from is referring to having a dynamic (flexible) faith rather than a stagnant (inflexible) one. He’s not saying that there was no virgin birth - it was a complete hypothetical. “A what if…” meaning if something was found to be wrong or misrepresented would you faith be destroyed?

    Oh and I just watched Bell’s “Everything is Spiritual” DVD, I think you may enjoy it - it hits on the ideas of quantum physics and multidimensional theories and God - something you blogged about a little while back. Fascinating stuff.

    And to note… I’ve recently come upon a few issues I have with Mr. Driscoll. Though I’m not a winker…

  2. 2 LayGuy

    Hey there Stuart,

    I thought you might respond to this post given you are a Bell fan. And hey, I respect that. Reading my post again and the context in which Bell wrote that in his book, I understand where he is coming from. He is challenging people to dig deeper and not rely simply on cliche and “mass produced Christianity.”

    And I respect that. Like I said on my post, Bell is the least of my concerns - it’s more McLaren and especially Pagitt. Bell - from what I have read and listened to seems OK to me. Some things I agree, some I don’t - but who cares right? We all have our opinions.

    I’d love to see his “Everything Is Spiritual” DVD - sounds fascinating to me. Finally, for the record, I’d love to know what your issues are with Driscoll. Do share :)

  3. 3 LayGuy

    But then again Stuart, the example Bell uses above shows how little he has thought through his argument. The “flexibility” of Bell’s thinking and the ramifications thereof shows his inability to respect stagnant and “inflexible” lines of thought.

    I don’t know man, maybe I should just watch his video. Zondervan please send me a copy!

  4. 4 Heather Fischer

    “Any serious Bible student would know that God is alluding to a mysterious event here as genealogies in Scripture are usually discussed along male lines and not female.”

    I would consider Bell as serious student of the scriptures (all be it a Fuller drop out though). Bell knows exactly what he is asking here. He simply wants to ask, “What if…” This all sounded okay at first but myself, once a big fan of Bell, have become increasingly uncomfortable with his recent positions and answer to the “what if” question. This is where Driscoll comes in. Had the convergence conference been earlier in the year I do not think that Bell would have made his “top 3″. Though I love Driscoll, he is brash and harsh (something for which he has addressed in more recent podcasts concerning humility).
    As for the likening of the Emergent stream to the Jesus Seminar, I could not more whole heartedly agree.
    Ps. Are you the same layguy I see post in Bob Hyatt’s blog?

  5. 5 LayGuy

    Hi Heather,

    Thanks for stopping by again. I don’t frequent Bob’s Blog - although after checking it out, I now might. I may have posted a comment or two in some distant past.

    I hear where you are coming from in regards to Driscoll. Being a fan, sometimes I cringe a little when he gets “huffy and puffy” - the latest being his rant in “Joy in Anxiety”.

    But I cherish the way he holds scripture in high regard and the way he engages his listeners. And the guy is funny.

    As for Bell, in one way, I understand what he is trying to do. But in his pursuit of relevance, he questions a little too much. Something very common within the emergent “conversation”.

  6. 6 Heather Fischer

    Hmmm…it must on been on Dave’s poop is emergent too that I saw some of your comments.
    I admit I sickly enjoyed the “Joy in Anxiety” rant. My flesh is cynical and sarcastic, something that has been nurtured in NY’ers like me. I’m working on it and I know Driscoll is too.
    As for Bell, I think God is big enough to stand up to questioning. That being said I’m am a big believer in systematic theology, I suppose.
    But you are right, Mark Driscoll is very funny.

  7. 7 LayGuy

    Yeah I frequent the “poop” site - it makes me laugh.

    I too enjoy the cynical side of things - I am an Aussie after all! I am a huge fan of Driscoll (he is now on Facebook) and love his ways. But he leaves himself so open to attacks - no wonder he always refers to the bloggers.

  8. 8 Jason

    I Hear what you guys are saying. I just think some one like Rob Bell, creates a creative gospel, which should cause debate. the only thing that makes me question the emerging is “spirtual warfare’ - it’s not talked about. so in essence it seems like a hidden topic, that is unfortunately hidden.

  1. 1 Power of Suggestion

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