Hybels v Driscoll
I was shocked to load up Technorati today and see Mark Driscoll at position six for top searches. My initial thoughts were, “what are all the freaks writing about him now.” Driscoll, being human, is not perfect and is subject to error - but has apologised many times when proven wrong. More than often though, it’s those that don’t know him that make the most outlandish rants about him. So it always pays to look things up and these are the events leading to this popular uprising.
According to Driscoll’s website, he was asked to make an 8 minute video for a church planting conference. Last year he attended the conference but chose not to this year due to the logistics involved. So he and his team made the following clip..
Once it aired, Bill Hybels was introduced and the words out of his mouth were along the lines of, “After that video I would like to acknowledge that there are women in this room and they have spiritual gifts.” Apparently a whole bunch of applause and yelling followed. Anyway, the conference organisers chose not to distribute the video clip to the 1500 delegates after the conference in an effort to harmonise things. Driscoll responds by saying:
“The leaders of the event are good guys whom I still consider friends, and I’ve never met Bill Hybels so I won’t speak about him personally.”
It seems as if Driscoll is maturing against the attacks he faces from critics as in the past, he would have lashed out. So why has the blogging world gone crazy about this story? Well there are a number of strange things happening here all rolled up into one. I’ll try to unpack this for you.
Go to the YouTube video and check out the comments from people viewing the video. Here Driscoll gets attacked by non-Christians for being a “dangerous” and “destructive” religious freak using the imagery of war to rally the troops. Some also have an issue that the video was shot at a military cemetery and that Driscoll has dishonoured the fallen by pushing his religious agenda.
Then the Christians also get fired up against the content of the video message. To summarise in three words, it’s, “men, mission, message,” in regards to church planting.
Men
Driscoll firmly believes in the male headship of the Church. He doesn’t hate women, nor is he chauvinistic in his biblical world view. His own Church has many women in leadership roles. It’s simply in the overall leadership of the Church does he push the male eldership role. I personally agree with this model for Church governing. As you can imagine, many don’t. Therefore he cops a lot of crap on this one.
Mission
Driscoll preaches the missional Church. In a nutshell, it’s about every Church member incarnating into culture to present the Gospel in a way relevant to that culture. Here’s where the conservatives freak out cause many Mars Hill Church bible studies occur in bars and tattoo shops in Seattle where Driscoll’s Church is based. The video uses a lot of “in your face” tones and is uncomfortable to watch for those in the “seeker sensitive” movement.
Message
Driscoll has many enemies in this area. One of my favourite lines from him is, “we put the ‘fun’ back into fundamentalism.” Driscoll’s theology is fundamental in nature - take the male eldership for example. It’s in this area that he cops criticism from all the liberals cause he contends for Biblical truth. His catch cry is “Reaching Out Without Selling Out”
So now you can begin to understand the reasons behind Driscoll’s rise in the world of Technorati searches. Everyone is writing about him - whether they like him or hate him. Fundamentalists hate him for his take on culture and mission. Liberals hate him for his take on theology. The secular world hates him cause his Church is gaining momentum and he continues to push boundaries for the Kingdom. In fact, Mars Hill Church after existing for 10 years is now ranked 16th in the top 20 Churches in the US.
What’s my lay opinion about all this?
If I can indulge, I fully agree with Driscoll’s take on Church. This video was about Church planting and I agree with the three basic principles he talks about. Male eldership is biblical and I support Driscoll’s view on this topic. This flies in the face of modern Christianity - as shown by Hybels comments.
It seems that political correctness is crippling the Church these days. I am not against females in leadership roles. I love to learn and be guided by females - we have a bunch at my church which I look up to tremendously. But the ultimate earthly authority goes to the male cause that’s the way God intended it to be. If you have an issue with that, bring it up with God cause He said it to be so. Not Driscoll, not me.
Instead of ruling over females, God’s men are urged to take their positions seriously and will be held accountable for their leadership and attitudes. A man in leadership should be humble for the task at hand instead of having a big head. This is the exact reason why Driscoll’s Acts 29 Network assesses potential Church planters and looks for qualities needed for a successful Church plant.
As the video shows in it’s imagery, too many Church plants end in death - hence the graves. Paul urged Timothy to fight the “good war” against the enemies of Christ - hence the military cemetery. And yet it’s the location and the style of the video which has caused as much of an uproar as the content.
Driscoll, you have my vote. You must be doing something right to have all the spectrum’s of criticism against you. It will be interesting to see how this whole thing pans out.
mark driscoll, bill hybels, driscoll, hybels, driscoll video, youtube, emergent, fundamentalist, missional, emerging church
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LayGuy | April 30, 2007
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Driscoll On Burnout at layguy.com — June 14, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
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fun websites for women — June 27, 2008 @ 11:07 am
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By mommyzabs, April 30, 2007 @ 7:03 am
Amen.
By Henry Judy, April 30, 2007 @ 2:38 pm
Let me set the record straight about this once and for all. I was a volunteer at the conference and worked with Scott from Acts 29 all week on the logistics of handling the video out. We also had 1800 Acts 29 brochures that did not arrive in time to be put in the bags at the beginning of the conference. As the conference was winding down we made a decision to hand the videos and brochures out via tables and volunteers at the 3 main doors and not each door to the sanctuary. We just did not have the people to do this nor was it feasible due to exit strategy. In no way, and I know first hand as I was in on the conversation, was their EVER any discussion by anyone associated with the conference that I know of NOT to hand out the video due to Bill Hybels remarks. What was quoted above IS THE QUOTE he said. You will be able to see for yourself when the main session videos are available on the conference website.
These rumors about the video being pulled from being given out are just NOT true. I know first hand what happened and now the record should be straight.
By LayGuy, April 30, 2007 @ 2:48 pm
Henry,
Thanks for your comment. Appreciate any input from people who were there.
My comments about the video being pulled are directly from Driscoll’s Resurgence website and these are his words..
“Apparently the video was shown at the event, was well received by the attendees, and then criticized by Bill Hybels from the stage because it did not speak of women church planters. And, not wanting a bigger fuss, the organization hosting the event then made a decision not to hand out the video as they had promised, leaving the guys from our Acts 29 Church Planting Network who had hauled suitcases of the videos to Florida with thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of wasted effort.”
It seems as if there are conflicting reports about this. I wonder what the truth is?
By Steve K., April 30, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
You wonder what the truth is? I would trust the guy who “worked with Scott from Acts 29 all week on the logistics of handling the video out”! Sheesh about it, LayGuy.
I also have to challenge you to think again on a couple of other points (not that I expect you will, but here goes anyway):
1) “the ultimate earthly authority goes to the male cause that’s the way God intended it to be. If you have an issue with that, bring it up with God cause He said it to be so.” This is the convenient “God said it, I believe it, that settles it” crap that must constantly be challenged in every generation. You can interpret the Bible your way, and I’ll interpret the Bible my way. But in the process, can I suggest that we interpret using our brains and our hearts and not our male genitalia?
2) “Driscoll, you have my vote. You must be doing something right to have all the spectrum’s of criticism against you.” I really debated even posting anything about Driscoll because I anticipated that people like you would jump to this conclusion. I mean, look at ALL the persecution this guy is facing?! He’s challenged on every side! He must be “right”!?! I’m sorry but that is absolutely ridiculous reasoning. Maybe this guy is so freaking wrong about women in the church that it’s painfully obvious to so many of the rest of us — and we just have to speak up out of concern for the women who continue to be pushed aside and marginalized in our churches.
When ideology like this gets promoted, I truly believe God’s heart breaks — for his daughters who he’s gifted for leadership and teaching and for his Church which is missing out on their gifts.
By LayGuy, April 30, 2007 @ 7:48 pm
Steve, thanks for your comments. Respectfully (as much as I can muster up given the tone of your comments) you are the type of person I really find difficult to like.
First of all, although I respect Henry Judy’s comments about what he saw at the conference in regards to the distribution of the video, I’d be listening more to Driscoll’s take on the events as Driscoll is one of the founding Directors of Acts 29. He would be privy to heaps more information than Henry would ever be.
In your first point you say, “This is the convenient “God said it, I believe it, that settles it†crap that must constantly be challenged in every generation. You can interpret the Bible your way, and I’ll interpret the Bible my way.” This just exposes your proud heart and I have no respect for this kind of attitude. Although difficult at times, I aim to let Scripture have authority over my thinking and if God says so, I aim to let it be. If you have an issue with this, then I feel for you.
You said, “But in the process, can I suggest that we interpret using our brains and our hearts and not our male genitalia?” By this comment I suggest you don’t have any to speak of.
You said, “Maybe this guy is so freaking wrong about women in the church that it’s painfully obvious to so many of the rest of us — and we just have to speak up out of concern for the women who continue to be pushed aside and marginalized in our churches.” Now I start to seriously doubt your capacity to think straight. At no point does Driscoll hate or put down women. I wonder, have you ever heard his sermons? Gone to Mars Hill? Have you ever planted a Church and Pastored it to the point where Mars Hill is today?
Probably not and you have the lame mentality to criticize someone working his butt off for the Kingdom to the point of exhaustion. Like I said Steve, you are a bit of a wimp.
To help you read between the lines, Driscoll, nor I for that matter, are against the wonderful women in our churches. I agree that God has given many women talents and strengths many men would do well to listen to.
Many women I know are in leadership roles and good on them. What Driscoll talks about goes way beyond what you have such a hard time understanding. No wonder you bag him. You are too simple to understand.
By NaTe, May 1, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
Yeesh! Guys! I know that they call this the “Information Superhighway”, but I didn’t think that it was because you need to constantly watch your back for electronic roadragers…
OK, I’m sorry for the lame joke, but aren’t we Christians meant to score a little lower than that on the “rage-o-meter”…?
Now - On Topic - apart from the arrogance and harshness on *both* sides, I can see that you’re both coming from the same place - you both want to respect God and do life the way that he wants. Right? Shouldn’t that give us a bit of common ground to discuss this on? In an effort to further that, let me throw something out and see whether we can all agree on it -
What God’s Word says *is important*.
There, that’s it. What we think, what we feel and what we wish God said is not a very big deal when it’s measured up against what God says.
Can we agree on this? Before saying yes or no, this means that we need to be humble enough to listen to how eachother understands God’s Word, but bold enough to hear what God says and not argue with it. If God’s Word is plain and simple, it’s only rebellion and intellectual dishonesty that prompts us to not be. This means that we need to recognise that we can’t just fall back on “that’s your interpretation” - we should go all out and find out what the *meaning*, not just the interpretation, really is.
Anyway, that’s my $0.02. Take it or leave it, but this is an issue which is serious and affects the entire church (and the world). If we are to be God’s people, unified as he prayed, then we need to unify around devotion and obedience to our God.
– Nathan
By Rod, May 15, 2007 @ 4:21 am
Lay Guy:
Glad to have you stop by my little remote blog…and an Aussie, no less!
While I don’t quite share the same high regard it seems you have for Driscoll, and does make some good points, and male leadership is certainly one of them.
Great blog, LG!